"youshiftem" (torinosport302)
04/23/2014 at 10:48 • Filed to: None
1
7|
"youshiftem" (torinosport302)
04/23/2014 at 10:48 • Filed to: None | 1
| 7 |
I'm working on a research project at work that requires the use of a vehicle simulation software. The software comes with pre-loaded vehicle data but nothing for a particular make/model. The vehicle we need to model is a 2003 Ford Windstar (exciting I know) but Ford won't get back to me with any kind of help. Do any of you guys know how to get this information or if it's even possible?
Here's the list of specs I will need:
Frontal Area (m2)
Length for Aerodynamic Moments (mm):X,Y,Z
Drag Coefficient vs. Slip Angle
Side Force Coefficient vs. Slip Angle
Rolling Moment Coefficient vs. Slip Angle
Pitching Moment Coefficient vs. Slip Angle
Yawing Moment Coefficient vs. Slip Angle
Brake System
ABS Control Settings
Fluid Dynamics Time Constant
Fluid Transport Delay
Torque vs. Pressure (N-m/Mpa)
Delivery Pressure vs. Line Pressure
Powertrain: Engine
Rotational Inertial of Crankshaft (kg*m2)
Idle Speed (rpm)
Engine Torque-Speed Map (N-m vs. rpm)
Capacity Factor
Torque Ratio
Inertial Properties – Input and Output Shaft
Powertrain: Transmission
Gear Ratios
Inertias (kg-m2)
Efficiencies-Natural
Efficiencies-Inverse
Speed (rpm) vs. Throttle (Upshift and downshift)
Torque Bias (N-m vs. rpm)
Gear Ratios
Efficiency Ratio: Natural (-)
Efficiency Ratio: Inverse (Coasting)
Spin Inertia: Drive Shaft (kg-m2)
Spin Inertia: Half-Shaft to L Wheel (kg-m2)
Spin Inertia: Half-shaft to R Wheel (kg-m2)
Steering System
Kinematics
Compliance Speed Limit to Prevent Instabilities
Kingpin Geometry: Lateral Offset (mm)
Kingpin Geometry: Inclination (deg)
Kingpin Geometry: Xcoord of KP@center
Kingpin Geometry: Caster Angle (deg)
Ratio of Rear Steer (-) vs. Vehicle Speed (kph)- Rear-Wheel Gain
Kinematics for One Wheel: Steer at Ground (deg) vs. Gearbox Output (deg)
Compliance: Steer Angle at Ground Due to Compliance (deg) vs. Kingpin Moment (N-m)
Steering Wheel Torque: Torque ratio (-) vs. Steering Wheel Angle (deg)
Suspension: Independent System
Track width (mm)
Roll Center Height (mm)
Wheel Center Height (mm)
Lateral Coordinate of Suspension Center (mm)
Anti-dive Angle
Total Unsprung Mass (kg)
Spin Inertia of Wheel
Ratios of Compression to Wheel Travel
Toe vs. Fx (deg/N)
Steer vs. Fy (deg/N)
Steer vs. Mz (deg/(N-m))
Camber vs. Fx (deg/N)
Inclination vs. Fy (deg/N)
Inclination vs. Mz (deg/(N-m))
Roll Steer (w/o Jounce)
Suspension: Spring
Spring Force (N) vs. Compression (mm)
Compression Envelope
Extension Envelope
Characteristic Deflection (mm)
Suspension: Shock Absorber
Shock force (N) vs. Compression rate (mm/s)
Suspension: Auxiliary Roll Moment
Auxiliary Roll Moment (N-m) vs. Suspension Roll (deg)
Suspension: Toe Angle
Toe Angle (deg) vs. Suspension Compression (mm)
Suspension: Camber Angle
Camber Angle (deg) vs. Suspension Compression (mm)
Tires
Rolling Radius
Spring Rate
Maximum Allowed Force
L for Fx
L for Fy and Mz
Spin Inertia
Animator Settings
Rolling Resistance
Low-Speed Threshold
Tire: Longitudinal Force
Tire/ground Friction Coefficient for this Data
Longitudinal Force (N) vs. Slip Ratio
Tire: Lateral Force
Tire/ground Friction Coefficient for this Data
Lateral Force (N) vs. Slip Angle (deg)
Tire: Aligning Moment
Aligning Moment (N-m) vs. Slip Angle (deg)
Tire: Camber Thrust Coefficient
Camber Thrust Coefficient (N/deg) vs. Vertical Load (N)
Vehicle: Assembly
Systems: Powertrain
Vehicle: Sprung Mass
Animation Reference Height (mm)
Wheelbase (mm)
Height of Vehicle Sprung Mass C.G. Above the Ground (mm)
Lateral Coordinate of the Mass Center (mm)
Distance of Mass Center Rearward of the Front Axle (mm)
Distance from Front Axle to Trailer Hitch (mm)
Height of Trailer Hitch (mm)
Lateral Coordinate of Hitch
Sprung Mass (kg)
Roll Inertia (kg*m2)
Roll Radius of Gyration (m)
Pitch Inertia (kg*m2)
Pitch Radius of Gyration (m)
Yaw Inertia (kg*m2)
Yaw Radius of Gyration (m)
Product (kg-m2)
OtherBarry
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 11:03 |
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I have a hard time finding unsprung weights unless I measure them. I would doubt very much Ford is going to help you with this if it has any relevance to a current model. You might have to obtain one and start measuring...
jariten1781
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 11:06 |
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I would think a major portion of the project would be calculating those variables and explaining your assumptions. I doubt any manufacturer has that stuff readily accessible for a discontinued vehicle. Even if they were willing to give it out (doubtful), it'd probably take weeks for some low level engineer or intern to find the time to go pull the old models and data from the archives.
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youshiftem
> OtherBarry
04/23/2014 at 11:06 |
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That's what we are doing now, but it is a very slow process.
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 11:14 |
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Aero data: probably exists, but so deep inside Ford's aero department's butt you'd be just as well building a loose model in CATIA or SolidWorks or another suite with ANSYS fluid sim to get *close*, then compare the Cd you get to the real number - probably available- to check how close you are. Sucks, but there it is.
Brakes: probably going to have to be mostly guesswork.
Engine: probably out there, but may be difficult to obtain - even if easier than aero. You can probably piece together a guess on crank MOI from ship weight of the crank, the rest you should be able to get from a workshop manual or other sources to a degree.
Trans: don't know what to tell you - some of this could be guessed at from having the car handy and driving/recording observed RPM vs. speed in engine braking, accelerating, and steady-state modes. There's probably somebody who has this, though.
Steering and suspension - you need the car to get all of this, really. No better way for some of it than just picking up and measuring, or taking some parts off. Sucks, I know. Alignment specs are provided to alignment shops, though, so that part can be looked up at one.
Tire specs: it's possible even Ford don't know if they have all this. Or if they did, some portions assigned to the memory hole. Your best ultimate source is the tire mfr., if they'll even give you the time of day.
Other stuff would be well estimated, again, by actually having the car, or prying out things so deep in Ford's bowels at this point (over a decade in) you might not have luck short of taking hostages in Dearborn.
A good bit more of this would be available through third parties if the vehicle had any performance or tuner interest, but on an '03 Windstar, I doubt it, I really do.
tromoly
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 11:36 |
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That's going to be your best bet, pick up a copy of RCVD to solve some of the things you're looking for.
Also, good luck with tire data, companies with data keep it locked up so tight that it makes Fort Knox look like a Five Finger Discount.
Mattbob
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 11:46 |
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For the really hard to get ones, remember, if you can't get the data at all, your prof probably doesn't have it either, so you can probably fudge it.
TheNeonDriver - Now with More BMW!
> youshiftem
04/23/2014 at 13:40 |
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Can you use similar vehicles out there? I have used dSpace (and one other, which I cannot for the life of me remember.. Adams something maybe?) before, which needed most of what you were using (fortunately, we had GM give us most of the data, as we were modeling a car for a GM sponsored competition).
Most of the basic aero information should be published, and then if it's not, find the car's dimensions and start from the CD number.
Slip angle and all the tire information will be nearly impossible to get, so, approximate.
Sprung mass can be calculated (approximated), along with roll radius and pitch inertia, as long as you can get the spring rates, GVW and the dampers. Good luck.
As I mentioned, try to find vehicles that use either similar systems, or components, and then infer, or find a similar vehicle in the software, and approximate. Show your work!
Good luck, and God Speed. This beings me back to my Capstone in University.